How about a change in our offensive philosophy?

[Mike Bass]

I may be the only fan in agreement with this but I would like to see a change of philosophy on offense. Portis is the man and I love the way he fight for every yard but I think that it is about time that we open it up more and that may mean taking the ball out of his hands more often and putting it in the air.

I know that the line may have been less than stellar this past season but I do not know if we had a decent line if we would not try the same "run-run-pass (maybe)" offense that has been putting fans to sleep for too long. I think that we need to mix it up and let the new receivers show us what they can do because I really think that we have some gems in Thomas, Kelly and Davis.I hear a lot about how our rooks were busts but were they really used properly?  The only way that you get the maximum value out of any asset is if you use it.

Those guys along with the fact that Portis is not the home run hitter that he was in Denver should  have dictated a more wide open offense. I do not know of a back in the league that can constantly run the ball up and down the field 3 or 4 yards at a time. Defenses are too good to let any one man  beat them or for a team to go 80 yards on a consistent basis without adding something deep or at least intermediate in between.

It was noted that we kept Gibbs' run offense while implementing Zorn's passing game but did anyone really notice a difference?...It was still "run-run-pass(maybe)" as far as I can see. We do not have the personnel to effectively run the offense of Gibbs I so I do not think that we should give it attempt but should, instead try to benefit from the personnel that we do have.

If it is the QB, we may need to change QB's but we can give Campbell a shot at getting it done first...We can blame the O-line but even when we had a decent O-line, we had problems scoring points so I think that it is time to re-evaluate the philosophy on top of adding a lineman or two and I truly think that the outcome will be better than we think.

Portis may or may not whine at the beginning of the change but so did Edgerrin James whine about not getting the carries in Arizona but everytime I have seen him lately he has a huge smile on his face and will probably be smiling broader if they can pull out a win in the Superbowl.

[redskin_ty]

I may be the only fan in agreement with this but I would like to see a change of philosophy on offense. Portis is the man and I love the way he fight for every yard but I think that it is about time that we open it up more and that may mean taking the ball out of his hands more often and putting it in the air.

I know that the line may have been less than stellar this past season but I do not know if we had a decent line if we would not try the same "run-run-pass (maybe)" offense that has been putting fans to sleep for too long. I think that we need to mix it up and let the new receivers show us what they can do because I really think that we have some gems in Thomas, Kelly and Davis.I hear a lot about how our rooks were busts but were they really used properly?  The only way that you get the maximum value out of any asset is if you use it.

Those guys along with the fact that Portis is not the home run hitter that he was in Denver should  have dictated a more wide open offense. I do not know of a back in the league that can constantly run the ball up and down the field 3 or 4 yards at a time. Defenses are too good to let any one man  beat them or for a team to go 80 yards on a consistent basis without adding something deep or at least intermediate in between.

It was noted that we kept Gibbs' run offense while implementing Zorn's passing game but did anyone really notice a difference?...It was still "run-run-pass(maybe)" as far as I can see. We do not have the personnel to effectively run the offense of Gibbs I so I do not think that we should give it attempt but should, instead try to benefit from the personnel that we do have.

If it is the QB, we may need to change QB's but we can give Campbell a shot at getting it done first...We can blame the O-line but even when we had a decent O-line, we had problems scoring points so I think that it is time to re-evaluate the philosophy on top of adding a lineman or two and I truly think that the outcome will be better than we think.

Portis may or may not whine at the beginning of the change but so did Edgerrin James whine about not getting the carries in Arizona but everytime I have seen him lately he has a huge smile on his face and will probably be smiling broader if they can pull out a win in the Superbowl.

I am in an agreement Mike but I think our offense is a result of few playmakers at the receiver position.  IMO if we had a true possesion receiver our offense would be a little different.  Time and time the defense stack up the box against us and let jason try to beat them.  But without time he can not really do much.  I really think in order for our offense to be where they want it this is what we need!   One or maybe two OL and one good possesion receiver wheter be a free agent or maybe Thomas or Kelly step up.  At times we look great but when we are in the red zone we are pathetic!!!!!!

[AlexandertheGreatestFANEV]

I agree, Mike...we need to develop our young receivers and throw the ball more. We also need to improve our usage of Moss and Randle el, AND use Cooley more often. Portis is good, but as we saw this year he can only carry the load for so long before he gets crippled. Also, with guys like Ladell fumblina Betts behind him, he's really our only running option aside from Sellers. We probably should find a better backup in that case. HOWEVER, since Zorn's system is West Coast, I think they need to use CP and Betts in more receiving roles. They both are capable of making passing plays, and it would give Campbell more options. I loved the fact that Gibbs came in and got us 2 playoff births in 4 years, but his coaching calls on offense sure were bothering me in 2007. I'm not very knowledgable when it comes to the mental side of the game of football, but I do know that in today's NFL, you have to have a well-balanced offense that can run and pass. Being one-dimensional has its advantages, but if teams adjust to it on D, you're gonna have problems. I'm hoping with Zorn back next year that things on offense will start to change. Of course, one of the first things in fixing the offense is building a good o-line. =)

[UK_Skinfan]

Some very good points have been made here guys and I totaly agree that we have to change on our offense.  We are too predictable!

Ive thought this since last year when "the wheels started to fall off"  we were too one dimensional without the capabilaty to change.  Teams found it easy to work us out, and it didnt need a rocket scientist to do that!

I do believe if we can protect JC a bit more and give him time inside the pocket then it would benefit our ability to use our WR core more and go to the air more with confidance and with suuccess.   This in turn would take the pressure off CP, keep him fresher and give him more impact when we do use the run.  If CP doesnt like having less carries then tough!  Its a TEAM game and he will have to get used to it.  I love the way CP plays, hes my type of player, but hes not the be all and end all. 

I do hope our WR core make a bigger impact next season, imo I think they will, and this will make our offense more potent and a bit of a problem to work out for the oposing teams.  We will be more of a threat with more options available to JC which is obvious but we are developing and we cant develop quick enough for me... 

Its frustrating I know but Im hoping things will be different next season whoever we get in FA and through the Draft.  Im hoping that behind the scenes that everyone is involved in a plan, in pulling in the same direction and developing us into a winning team. 

What ever we think we have to give JC a chance at QB and we have to give Zorn a chance at HC to see what they can do.  Its just the beggining and both have just started here but its a make or break season for them both next season, lets hope we are satisfied with their performances this time next season, even better if we have to wait and judge them a week after the Pro Bowl 

[Mike Bass]

A O-lineman or two will definitely help but quick hitters will help a weaker O-line also...we should not have stopped passing because we have a weak line. More than likely we will have a weakish line until we get better/younger players and get them developed.

This year Ben Roethlisberger has been on his back more than a $2.00 hooker but the Steelers plan to counter-act the rush that they know that they are going to get by getting the ball to their receivers quicker which will, eventually open up the longer passes because that will slow up the oppositions aggression. JUST like what JUST happened in the Cardinals first TD drive...they counter-acted the Steelers aggression with quick passes to James and Breaston and it opened up a longer pass to Boldin.

No one should know your personnel like you should and instead of accepting that we could not pass because of a defensive rush, we should have figured out a way to get it done. That may go back to our coaches inexperience but the line should not be a major excuse because we DID have one out there and like Randy Thomas said earlier this year..."they are paid to block the opposition".

[AlexandertheGreatestFANEV]

I agree with you MB on not making the o-line an excuse for no passing game. J-CAM needs work on timing and making better decisions under pressure. The o-line can only block for so long. Everyone on O needs to work together to produce TDs.

[Mike Bass]

I agree with you MB on not making the o-line an excuse for no passing game. J-CAM needs work on timing and making better decisions under pressure. The o-line can only block for so long. Everyone on O needs to work together to produce TDs.

EXACTLY Alex, drop back and get 'er done!!...there are weakness on every team.

If it takes a two step drop...drop two...if it takes a 5, drop 5 but we have to have the right plays called at the right time in the passing game no matter who we have on the line.

[UK_Skinfan]

MB You metioned how the Cards were "they counter-acted the Steelers aggression with quick passes to James and Breaston and it opened up a longer pass to Boldin" 

I think the Cards were getting success because the Steelers were taking care of Anquan Boldin and Larry Fitzgerald, I dont think Moss and A. Randle El would get, or warrant,  that much attention.  If we had a genuine deep threat other than Moss then maybe that would be different....  Dont get me wrong Id love to have a WR with the threat of Boldin of Fitzgerald but its not going to happen, unless we get lucky..

I go back to the Draft picks from last year and im sure they will contribute more this season coming.  Better timing, better running of routes and more understanding about what they need to do to get the chains moving. 

Our O line needs to give JC more time in the pocket to do the business....  I hate it when the pocket collapses and JC has to scramble resulting in a Sack or with no production on a drive. 

 

[Mike Bass]

I think that on the drive that I referred to, the objective was to slow down the  pressure so that Warner would have time to go to Boldin or Fitzgerald, as he eventually did. Given a little time, whether teams are concentrating on those two or not, Warner will throw it to them and let his big guys go up and get it or out fight smaller Db's.

3 passes were thrown in the backfield to James on that drive so that they could keep the LB's honest and once he felt that they were laying back for that, Warner hit Boldin. A coach should be able to strategies against aggresive lines like the Steelers knowing that they are going to win and lose some but they should not get away from the passing game completely.

[UK_Skinfan]

I just got the impression that the Steelers were trying to keep fitz and Boldin under wraps and not give up the big play.  Allowing the short pass to james was a small price to pay in keeping Fitz and Boldin quiet.

Like you say if thats what they were doing then its upto The Cards Coaching staff to figure out how to combat that and by using James then they did have success.  That play where Boldin did make a big gain was thought out well, Fitz did clear a lot of space for Boldin to capitalise on. 

I thought the Cards looked a different team in the hurry up offense though as we saw in the 4th quarter, this could have been the way to beat the Steelers D??? If only, we will never know.

Warner wasnt going to get much time with the pressure from the Steelers D but Im sure they didnt expect anything else.  I was dissapointed with how the Cards failed to live with the steelers D though.  Or was it that the Steelers D was better than I thought??  ( I knew they had a Great D)

[stwasm]

I think a lot of the offensive woes go back to the personnel on the offensive line.  As the season wore on, Thomas and Kendall couldn't pull anymore.  Thus, it limited what the offense could do, knowing that the 30-somethng-year-old linemen were tired and beat up after a long season.  Until we get some young, hungry pups who can consistently give JC time and open more holes for Portis and Company, you're going to have a pretty vanilla offense. 

[UK_Skinfan]

I think a lot of the offensive woes go back to the personnel on the offensive line.  As the season wore on, Thomas and Kendall couldn't pull anymore.  Thus, it limited what the offense could do, knowing that the 30-somethng-year-old linemen were tired and beat up after a long season.  Until we get some young, hungry pups who can consistently give JC time and open more holes for Portis and Company, you're going to have a pretty vanilla offense. 

Thats it in a nut shell stwasm....

the thing is we all know it. 

I think with all that being said we probably did as well as we could have with what we had, at the end of the season. sad but realistic.

[Mike Bass]

I would like to think that the problem simply lies with the O-line but if I did, I know that I would be fooling myself. I am not saying that we do not need a upgrade because we certainly do but as I stated earlier,when we had a decent line we still had a "vanilla offense".

The line was about the same when Todd Collins took over last season but when we opened up the game with Reche Caldwell, Kenan McCardell along with Moss, the team started to score because we had a experienced QB, who could read defenses better , bait teams when necessary and get rid of the ball.

Like Alex stated, although some of the problems lies with the line, and athough they may not be able to hold defensive lines off for 5 or 6 seconds or whatever the good lines hold teams off at they were still holding them off long enough to set something up. All do not have to be either a hundred yard attempts or the ever present side line screen to Moss. A lot of the set up passes that the good passing teams utilize are those across the middle and that's where Kelly should come in. That pass should be easier for Campbell to make and it should get us some intermediate yardage setting up the deep pass to Moss or Thomas.

And too, it is a well known fact that Capmpell holds on to the ball to long even if he have a few seconds to throw it. This would work against ANY line in the NFL.

I would love to see our team better themselves on the O-line but I would not expect for a lineman or two to be the end-all to our offensive woes.

[UK_Skinfan]

Quite right MB I agree just upgrading the O line wont make us instantly a  success.

We need all parts of our offense to click and work together.  Short passes Screens draws our runs its all about balance and if we do get a balanced offense then the weaknesses  on our O line wont be as critical.

[Mike Bass]

Quite right MB I agree just upgrading the O line wont make us instantly a  success.

We need all parts of our offense to click and work together.  Short passes Screens draws our runs its all about balance and if we do get a balanced offense then the weaknesses  on our O line wont be as critical.

I really think that we have most of the players in house now that we need UK but I do not know if we are using them right. I have a lot of hope for Thomas and Kelly, mainly because I have been crying about not having big enough receivers for like 3 years now and I want to prove myself to be right, but I think that we are going to have to focus on getting them the ball more next season.

I think that Zorn will make the proper adjustments next season and we are going to see more passes and utilize Cooley and Davis together more often. I just think that we have too much talent to not have put something together to make our passing game work a little better.

But experience is a good teacher so hopefully we will see a change in our offensive philosophy once our players and coaches gain more confidence in each other.