Zorn and Campbell possibilities, IMO: WARNING!! everyone may not be happy

[Mike Bass]

About 2 weeks ago I created a thread comparing Jason Campbell to the QBs who were on teams that were in the top positions to go to the playoffs and like then, I still think that he compares favorably to the upper mid to top-level QB's in the NFL. But with that being said and with our obvious need to re-build in some areas, I really think that we may see a parting of the ways between Campbell and the Redskins sooner than we  expect but I do not think that his replacement will be named Colt. NO Campbell is not a bad QB, he's actually a very good QB,in fact  Campbell is and was the best QB that we have and the jury was still congregating on  how he would lead us this season, so starting him was a no-brainer and I do not think that Colt really has what it takes to be a starting QB in the NFL. I really think that we will go in a totally different direction than we are in right now.

I also think that Campbell will strive with whatever team that he goes to, IF he goes anywhere. IMHO, he would tear up the league with the Houston Texans with the likes of Andre Johnson, Kevin Walters at receiver and a the rookie Steve Slaton at RB but with a young Shaub there firmly in place I know that this will not happen. Maybe the Jets, maybe the Bills, I don't know but I think that a team becomes disenchanted with their QB after a while of things not working out and vice-versa with the QB and this may be one of those occassions.

The tools are there with Campbell and the few things that needs working on is not major but what I think that he really needs to take him to the next level is more of a chemistry that benefits his style and needs.The O-line did not help him out much this season but I do not think that it is the only problem. I just don't think that we have what it takes to make Campbell a great QB and I do not know if he has what it takes to take this particular team any further than he has taken us. Every good QB is not going to work in every system.

This is not a knock on Campbell (he'll do fine in his career) and is only a opinion.

On Zorn.....

I was just as happy as anyone else when Zorn was, seemingly making all the right calls and the team looked as though we had the coach that we needed for the next 10 years (I think that DCDOGG was the only fan questioning his coaching ability during that time). But it seems as though he hit the "rookie wall" or something halfway through the season and IMO he really looked lost in most games during that time. This was very noticeable throughout the league, by the fans (ours and other team's fans) who I have spoken with and showed in our lack of scoring.

This was his rookie season but it is as it appears in some cases and as far as Zorn goes, I think that what we saw in the last few games, may be what we can expect from him. His hiring with a total lack of experience was a huge gamble to begin with and it may be a gamble that we loss and we may have to eat those losses and bring in someone more established if we can find anyone.

Yes, as some has stated, it would be sad to have to lose yet another coach and yes, the team has been abysmal in our coaches evaluating process but if we still do not have it right, I don't think that the FO should rest on what we have because of their past mistakes if there's still a problem.

We are going to have to bring in even more hopefully impact rookies (hopefully on the lines) and IMO Zorn did not even handle the ones who were brought in this season correctly.

Like I said in another thread, I appreciate Zorn's efforts but I just do not think that he is head coaching material. I thought that we had enough veteran players and assistants in place to make his rookie season go a little smoother and if we brought in someone who was more  ready, we may have had enough but head coaching is obviously not a job that  anyone can just venture into.

[AlexandertheGreatestFANEV]

In all honesty, Mike...I think Zorn should stay another year. I CAN see changes in our roster, but I think CP and others are more likely to go than Campbell. Considering how the season ends, it'll be interesting.

[Mike Bass]

In all honesty, Mike...I think Zorn should stay another year. I CAN see changes in our roster, but I think CP and others are more likely to go than Campbell. Considering how the season ends, it'll be interesting.

I can respect that Alex and I wouldn't have a HUGE problem with neither staying but I do not think that it will happen. It's just  a random thought but I can see a change in a major position coming and I really do not think that it will be CP.

[HOGWILD21]

Finally somebody has spoken the truth.I like JC but he needed to be benched a couple of games ago.He just didn't have it after the Steelers game.I believe the Steelers exposed him and every team just did what the Steelers did.Should have brought in Todd Collins and NOT Colt.Todd led us to a great run last season.The way he ran our offense was like poetry.Would have loved to have seen Zorn give Collins a chance.Like you said Stan Colt isn't an NFL QB.There is a REALLY Big difference from the WAC (Western Athletic Conference) and the NFL.We are gonna have to go out and hopefully trade up for a QB IN THE DRAFT.There is a QB from Texas Tech that I would love to see in a Redskins jersey.

 As for Zorn I really was never happy about the hiring.He is just a QB coach.He looked freakin lost in his first career game.We all know we had a chance to win that game but that was then.Every time we had a coach it was always a big name.Even though some of the names I didn't agree with.His play calling lately has been plain awful.I hate his 3rd down calls!I say we go our seperate ways and start over starting with the draft!This is only my opinion!

[Hitman21]

Yea I really confused right now. I'm mot really sure what to think,I really feel sorry for coach Z and Qb Jason Campbell but in some ways I think your right. Maybe Jay Z just isn't the guy and Maybe Jason Campbell just isn't fit for what we are trying to do. Check this out though what If Zorn Builds his Offense to make JC more comfortable in it. The way you take advantage of your players is by playing to there strengths.

Yes you have a system you want to run but you have to work with what you got and look at there strengths and weaknesses and play to those that will help you and stay way from your weaknesses. I think this team would have better If these action  were taken IMO. I aslo believe you have to take chances fed davis made somethings happen and devon has been stepping up you jusy have to talk chances and no hold back. You remember early in the year I said the Zorn was holding JC back and No letting him play ball. Well I fell that Zorn start to Hold the WHOLE offense back By keeping Guys in on the oline that were not getting it done. Not Shorting the QB drop from 7 to 3 at times. Not being aggressive and not setting the tone. I felt down the stretch after they faced the first hard ship Zorn began to coach scared,and to me it showed.

For some reason I believe that Coach we Saw at 6-2 is in there and that team we saw at 6-2 is in there Zorn just need to make adjustments in his aproach and thinking and Loosen up and Let ERR RIP. But I have this sick feeling that he will not have that chance because D.C is Screaming and the media is Blowed this up and His going to get run. But I hope he guys A SHOT TO MAKE IT RIGHT


Just My Opinion

[Mike Bass]

Great posts Hit, Alex and Rob but!!..

I am not calling for Zorn's head for any particular instance, in fact I am not calling for his head at all if we think that he could get the job done. IMO it looks like he has a long way to go and giving him another 3-5 years would not be beneficial to us if we can get a more capable coach now.

We may have put him in a bad situation for a rookie coach because we have rookie receivers who needs developing properly (Deshean Jackson, Eddie Royal and John Carlson had more capable coaches... I do not think that they were THAT much better than Thomas, Kelly and Davis but they were used correctly), we have lines that needs to be worked on, we were trying to develop our QB and I think that this is a lot for a rookie coach to handle.

[Hitman21]

Great posts Hit, Alex and Rob but!!..

I am not calling for Zorn's head for any particualr instance, in fact I am not calling for his head at all if we think that he could get the job done. IMO it looks like he has a long way to go and giving him another 3-5 years would not be beneficial to us if we can get a more capable coach now.

We may have put him in a bad situation for a rookie coach because we have rookie receivers who needs developing properly (Deshean Jackson, Eddie Royal and John Carlson had more capable coaches... I do not think that they were THAT much better than Thomas, Kelly and Davis but they were used correctly), we have lines that needs to be worked on, we were trying to develop our QB and I think that this is a lot for a rookie coach to handle.


Your right It has been alot and If this is how it's going to be it's going to be a HUGE set back and we can't wait 3-5 years we are ready except the o-line NOW so your right about that and I do see you point of veiw. It to bad but I think he was throw in here and it's just to much for him to handle.

[AlexandertheGreatestFANEV]

Finally somebody has spoken the truth.I like JC but he needed to be benched a couple of games ago.He just didn't have it after the Steelers game.I believe the Steelers exposed him and every team just did what the Steelers did.Should have brought in Todd Collins and NOT Colt.Todd led us to a great run last season.The way he ran our offense was like poetry.Would have loved to have seen Zorn give Collins a chance.Like you said Stan Colt isn't an NFL QB.There is a REALLY Big difference from the WAC (Western Athletic Conference) and the NFL.We are gonna have to go out and hopefully trade up for a QB IN THE DRAFT.There is a QB from Texas Tech that I would love to see in a Redskins jersey.

 As for Zorn I really was never happy about the hiring.He is just a QB coach.He looked freakin lost in his first career game.We all know we had a chance to win that game but that was then.Every time we had a coach it was always a big name.Even though some of the names I didn't agree with.His play calling lately has been plain awful.I hate his 3rd down calls!I say we go our seperate ways and start over starting with the draft!This is only my opinion!

I'm not sure I can agree with this, HogWild. YES, Collins led us to the playoffs last year, BUT Gibbs was the coach. They were saying in offseason how Collins wasn't adjusting to the West Coast offense very well, so it's really hard to tell if he would've been able to carry us like he did last year. Obviously, over the past few years, this team has had difficulties finding systems that work, in addition to the personnel who can make those systems work. If we can somehow pull that off in the next few years, we MIGHT get better.

[Mike Bass]

Testing ONE, Two, Three,...Testing One, Two, Three

Just checking to see if this thread was still here.

[LuvDaSkins]

I think the next two games may play a big part in if Zorn stays....I do wonder if Campbell will remain with the team though...Listening to some of his recent interviews it seems to me that his attitude has changed....I do agree that he would prob play well on another team that has more play makers.

[HOGWILD21]

YES, Collins led us to the playoffs last year, BUT Gibbs was the coach. They were saying in offseason how Collins wasn't adjusting to the West Coast offense very well, so it's really hard to tell if he would've been able to carry us like he did last year.




I am pretty sure Collins would have done better than JC did.

[Mike Bass]

Just a follow up question guys and dolls...do you think that it is highly possible that we do not make any major changes this offseason?

I think not, I do not think that it is possible.

I don't think that we will go into this offseason with the same strategy as we did last ofseason ?

I support everyone on the current roster..players AND coaches but I think that we may have more of a shake up this season than we had last season. I am sure that I may be wrong but then again I may be right. It doesn't mean that I hate the team that we have now or do not or will not support anyone who is still here...Mine are just opinions and I like to hear each and every one of yalls...therefore I post threads to see you all views

[BMahoney]

If we want to win next season, we won't change anything other than our lines.  Their is no qb, rb, db or lb who can look that good behind our aging injury prone offensive and defensive lines.  Until we get some talent up front, the talent behind the big guys will never reach its full potential

[BMahoney]

I also think we should possibly test the waters of running a 3-4 defense, Alexander has clearly shown a lot of heart, I would really like to see what he could do at the NT position.  Evans has shown he can be an adequate DE, and possibly griffin or montgomery could shed some lbs to be the RE.  We move carter to OLB, with Fletcher and Rocky in the middle, and Blades on the other end.  Just an idea, based on what I have observed over the past couple seasons, and the amount of success 3-4 schemes have in comparison with 4-3 schemes, I think the it deserves a shot.

[Yellow31]

IMO there is a learning curve for NFL head coach.  Expecting a playoff birth is a bit unfair for a rookie coach.  JC is the QB and will be for several more years.  I am dissapointed in how the season is ending but looking back I am not completely dissapointed in this team.
The root of the problem was injuries and an aging O line.  It pains me to say this but I think part of the problem is a Joe Bugel coached line does not fit a West Coast game plan.  The game has changed since the days of the Hogs and Buges needs to adjust to the philosophy of the head coach.  Bugel and Zorn are just not on the same page.
Bottom line is that we need to shake things up in the trenches from coach to starters to back ups.  We should keep Heyer and Rhinehart and give the rest thier walking papers.